Sam Houston is back on the show 2026

Episode 2 of our new format to our show, we have Sam Houston back . Sam was our first guest on our original show. This time Sam wants to talk about his friend BlackBart who passed away on January 9, 2025 of cancer. BlackBart and Sam had some very bloody bull rope matches for the Mid Atlantic title. Hear these amazing stories and learn how to get an autographed BlackBart book, as well as your very own bull rope made by  BlackBart and autographed by Sam and BlackBart themselves before BlackBart passed.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:27

Welcome to the Double Octane Ultimatic Podcast. I am your host, Johnny O, and with me is Jaffo. And we have a very special guest. In our first iteration of the podcast four years ago, we had Mr. Sam Houston as a guest. He is the son of Grizzly Smith, the brother of Jake the Snake, and Rockin' Robin. He is Sam Houston, and he is joining us now once again. And today is very special. We're going to be uh discussing uh legendary professional wrestler Black Bart, uh, who Sam had a major feud with and uh ended up in some pretty bloody situations. Um Sam, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Hey, I'm doing great. On the intro with me, you needed to add one more thing. Father of the uh uh the upcoming well God, she's wonderful. Father of the uh NWA superstar, Samantha Starr. Oh, wow. That needed to be put in there. Yeah, she's doing really well with uh the NWA and on the independent circuit, too. But I'm doing really well. I'm doing fantastic, really. You know, every day above ground is a good day. So, you know, say my prayers and do my thing and uh and and and uh live right.

SPEAKER_05 1:49

Sam, are you still active in the ring at all?

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Well, I haven't been uh over the last two years because of the bout with uh stage three lung cancer. Oh wow. Um but I don't know, you know, that kid rock song that came out when uh the Super Bowl halftime till you can't. That's really been hitting hard at me. So I want to see maybe if I can give it, you know, just a little bit more. Because that's the whole thing about me, man. You know, you you get so far enough that you do something that everybody can be just, you know, uh plainly satisfied, or you can go just that one bit further, well that one step further. And that was probably uh actually one of the compliments, the best compliments I ever got in my career was from precious Paul Ellering. I had come back from the ring in Philadelphia and he was standing on the stage and he was watching my match. And Paul watched my matches a lot, and he goes, and he stops me on on my way to the dressing room. He goes, Sam, he goes, uh, he goes, do you know why I enjoy watching your matches? And I said, No. He said, because you go out there and you go one step further with everything, you know, and and uh and and I want to do that in everything I do. If I'm raking the yard, if I'm mowing the grass, well go that one step further and make it bang, you know, make it have some pop to it. Uh little projects around the house. I don't want to leave something half done, you know? And that's the way I feel about my wrestling too. I don't want to leave something half done. So um my whole life uh and what I'm trying to do now is because I've been through a whole lot of stuff, y'all. Whole lot of stuff. And I've always uh bounced back, or I've always rebuilt, or I've always had to start over. And I you know I've done all this so I can I and I've been given a platform because of who I am, but because of that platform, I can show you what I've been through. And if you haven't, you know, I was almost eaten by cannibals twice. How many people can say that? Not a lot, but if that ever happens, I can tell you you there is hope and you can make it.

SPEAKER_05 4:12

I remember that story from the previous time you were on. Uh we had uh previous time when you were on, we actually made two episodes out of it um because it was just you know, we had such a great long interview.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Well, good time, yeah. I mean, I enjoyed talking to y'all, you know. Um and everything is uh you know, everything is a lot different for me now, especially after the cancer and stuff.

SPEAKER_05 4:35

So how's that going? How's the cancer going?

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Oh, dude, I'm I'm I've been cancer free for October will be two years.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

Oh, wow. Wow done. Wow, good.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

I had uh yeah, I think an incredible story. Well, do you want to talk about Bart first or my can't be able to do that?

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Yeah, absolutely. I would love to talk about Bart first because I think that's like really important that we get that out. Oh, sure. Hearing everything. And for me, Black Bart, he was world-class heavyweight champion, so I have a very fond memory of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Okay. Also, wait, John, Josh, who's talking? Because you're you're not in my screen on my computer. No, I got to see your earpiece.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

So if you lean over to your left, yeah, then I can get a little more of your face. Okay. Oh, to your left.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

To my left. Okay. Other left. You can move the chair if you want. All right. What about now?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

No, I still can't. I can only see your shoulder and your uh earpiece.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

I I'm I'm not that attractive. So you're not missing. Okay. John is the pretty one of this show. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Okay. Okay, I don't know. I can't see either one of y'all, so I don't I don't know who I'm talking to.

SPEAKER_05 5:44

Uh is there a something on your computer that you're that you can't see? Is there a hold on, let me I can I can always uh edit this out.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

The the magic of editing when John goes to do this.

SPEAKER_05 5:58

Um all right, yeah, let's uh let's get into uh Black Bart. Um so Josh and I recently watched the uh match that you it all started when you won the Midalland championship from Crusher Crusad. And everyone knows Crusher Crusif as Smash from Demolition and the Repo Man, the Black Top Bully.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Um Crusher Dar show. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

Um so I remember you winning that title. The first question I have about that is, and you know, as as the wrestling world has gotten exposed over the years, um, what does it feel like to win a championship? And how did you find out you were winning the title, and what was your reaction? Did you like was that your first major title?

SPEAKER_01 6:48

You're elated, you know. It's like, you know, this promotion has this much uh uh faith in me to go out there and and represent, you know. You really are the cream of the crop, the top of the heap, you know. And uh it so you're elated when when when that happens, and when that moment does happen, I mean you just lose it because you're so overjoyed and stuff. Uh but the more and more titles you win, the the the less of that feeling it is. You know, after you won your like fourth, third, or fourth, fifth one title, it's kind of like okay, did it again, you know, here we go, show the people and stuff like that. And then it becomes more of just, you know, you're out there more or less just going through the motions. You're not living it inside, you know, because you've already had that. You understand?

SPEAKER_05 7:40

Yeah. Josh, did you have a question about the title? Did you have a question about the uh title, carrying the title around?

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Oh, yeah. Uh so all right. How one, how much do those belts weigh?

SPEAKER_01 7:53

That one probably, we've got the uh a full-size replica of that one at my wife's office. That probably weighs anywhere between uh 15, 17 pounds.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

And what was it like having to bring that through airports?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Oh, I mean, you get flagged all the time, and all all the security wants to pull it out of your wrestling, but you know, because you don't go without it, you gotta check it. I mean, you don't check it. Uh, but uh, you know, they all gotta pull it out and everybody wants to take pictures with it and stuff like that. I mean, uh if you ever want to embarrass somebody, put something embarrassing on top of that title. That way that's the first thing they pull out of your bag. You know.

SPEAKER_05 8:36

Have you ever pulled that trick?

SPEAKER_01 8:39

I didn't, but Ronnie Garvin did.

SPEAKER_06 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Um when he won the uh the world title from Flair, I guess. Uh there was this one woman security guard, and every time at the airport, and every time Ronnie went through there, she pulled all of his stuff out. So he put um a male, uh like an appendage. He puts the belt in there. But right when she unzipped the bag, she pulls this this female appliance out. Some hardware. Yeah, uh, but yeah, stuff like that does happen.

SPEAKER_06 9:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

But yeah, it you know, it it especially if it's at the bottom of your bag, then you're gonna pull everything out, you know, your boots, your truck, your trunks, everything, everything's laid all out, you know. So it's best to when you're traveling, keep your belt on the top.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

You know, all right, right. Yeah, I can see that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 9:43

Yeah. Um, any uh uh d did you want to keep going for the talking about mid-Atlantic title?

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Yeah, I it just your memories of being like mid-Atlantic champion and everything, and actually for me it's a lot about what it was like being in the territories because I am fascinated by the territorial system of the 19 of that time period. And so, like, what territories did you work in? In which territory was your favorite?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Well, I okay, the Mid-South Territory, uh, I I never wrestled for Mid-South. Uh, I wrestled for UWF, it was the same company after the name changed.

SPEAKER_05 10:23

That was Bill Watts on that, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

But I never wrestled for Mid-South, but I did work for Mid-South because by the time I was like uh 14, 15 years old, I had the I was setting up the TV ring every other week in Shreveport. And then when I was 15 years old, had my license and everything. I used to drive the ring truck to the towns that didn't have a ring, the normal towns that didn't have a ring, like Lake Charles, Louisiana or uh uh Thibodeau or different towns that didn't have rings in the town. I would drive those down and be the ring crew guy. I'd set the ring up, and then I'd always pick up. I was doing really good when I was doing that, uh, because then I'd pick up being the timekeeper and get paid an extra 50 bucks for that. If I got an announce, that was another 50. So for 15 years old, you know, that was uh about you know $400 there. All my transportation and food was paid for. All I had to do was put in the work. You know, I was making I was making better money doing that, and then when I started wrestling in the prelims. Um you know, that was just a $50 guarantee. Florida, uh, Florida was a a a great territory because your longest trip is like four hours. I mean, you got time to hit the beach every day. You could do whatever you want to in Florida. I mean, when they call it the Sunshine State, gosh, they were right, you know.

SPEAKER_05 11:47

There's probably a gym every every corner. There's probably a gym every corner on Florida.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

But Florida was a great territory for us back then. Um, you know, now it's so hard to get around any of the towns, you know. Oh, I lived in Orlando in 2017 and it was rough there then. But uh yeah, Florida was cool, and then the Carolinas and the Carolinas, uh, that's where you know it started out as a territory, uh Virginia, West Virginia, they did uh Toronto and a few towns up, but there were like five bookers when I first started working for Mid-Atlantic. And then when Dusty came in and changed everything, uh, then it, you know, he started running, and we were we were still concentrated on the Mid-Atlantic, but that's when we started branching out and started going, you know. Uh I guess I don't I don't know if you'd call it fighting back or invading back or what, but you know, moves were being made from Vince and stuff like that, so somebody had to rise up, you know. And I think that that we were the strongest company to do that with.

SPEAKER_05 12:59

When you won the championship uh from uh Crusher Crush, uh was Dusty the booker, and is he the one who told you that you were winning the title that night?

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Uh yeah. Um Dusty was a booker, and he yeah, he just surprised me and goes, you know, and uh laid it out. Yeah, you know, and when when he came when Crusher came off of the the top rope with that clothesline, that's when he tore his knee. Uh and you know, so he was trying to get rid of me uh, you know, uh out of the through and get me out get me out of the ring, and that's when Animal caught me and pressed me back in over there, and I hit uh hit uh uh crusher with the uh I guess crossbody and hooked the leg one, two, three, and I was the champion. And wow, I mean, just what a feeling. And uh my first match, my first title defense was a couple of nights later in Columbia, South Carolina against Stony Burke, and I was getting ready to go for my bulldog, and when I hit the ropes, and I hit the ropes hard, the top rope broke and I landed on my head. Well the referee started counting me out, and I had just won the belt, you know, and I was like, oh no, no. I didn't know that I uh I don't know, it maybe uh too many chair shots or head shots or landing on my head. Uh I forgot that you don't lose the belt on a count out. But anyway, I got back in the ring and finished the match and hit it with hit the bulldog and won, but oh I was hurting. Uh but you know that that whole run was good, but I it was kind of like I just faced different opponents, you know. And um uh really a champion needs to go out there and showcase that talent as best they can, you know, to to to make them worthy of being in the ring with a champion, you know. And then so I I always used to like to try to have the most competitive matches I could with people. But then when Bart came along, wow, I mean, i it we we just clicked, you know, and people were getting what they wanted every night. I mean, they were getting blood and guts, hard going, you know. Two guys that weren't afraid to work with each other, wrestle each other, you know, and show you it takes something special to be in this business.

SPEAKER_05 15:19

Did you already know Black Bart before you started feuding with him? What did he come in right away?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Or well, let me tell you how I met Bart. Uh when I was uh in high school, uh 11th grade, that was the ring crew and everything. Anyway, I had to have my tonsils taken out. And uh when they took my tonsils out, uh I I flatlined on the table for two minutes. Um they brought me back, boy, I was mad, but I didn't eat food. They nicked my pharnax. I didn't eat food from April the 2nd till August 13th. Wow. I got the food down because they were doing a superdome hospital from April the 2nd to August the 13th. The show at the Superdome was that night, and the doctors weren't gonna let me leave until I could uh swallow food. They had sewn my neck back together, so they could they'd closed the wounds. I got a spoonful of food down, they allowed me to leave. I got go to the Superdome that night, and uh I I was a shell, I mean, uh just a shell of my former self. You know, before I was already up to about 225 pounds, and I I come out of the hospital, I weigh 128. I was you know, so uh Watts was real bad about uh, you know, he didn't like people in the dressing rooms and stuff like that. Well, I was Grizz's son, you know, and I was always the one running and getting cokes and sodas and hot dogs for the guys, taking care of their jackets. Hell I was their mechanic and everything else. Well, anyway, I was backstage and and Watts was going around uh uh doing his thing, so I I just try to keep out of the way, you know. And Bart was there, and this is the first time I had met Bart because Watts had taken over from McGurk around that time, uh, because McGurk had tri-state something, uh, and uh Black Bart was working for them and and Watts went ahead and used some of their talent and he was using Hangman Ricky Harris. And that's who Black Bart was. So he had gone out there and had a mi match with Mike Sharp. Now my dad had already told me that this business was not for me and everything else, and anyway, I knew I wasn't gonna get no help there. Uh but I went uh and I was talking to Bart and he just uh wrestled iron Mike Sharp and Mike Sharp beat him. And you know, I'm looking at, well, you got beat, you know. I said, was it is it worth it? And he looked at me dead in the eyes and he said, You damn well straight it's worth it. He said, I'm wrestling in the biggest Coliseum in the United States tonight. You know, all I and and he was. He was wrestling in the biggest Coliseum in the country, the Superdome. So I I decided, well, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go for it. And I started working out, and that's kind of kind of what got me, you know, going that way and getting me into the business. Then when George Weingroff, it took me almost a whole year, I got my weight back up, and then uh, but I wasn't getting in the easy way or anything like that. There were no wrestling schools, you know, but I had skills. I wrestled in school, you know, for the the uh wrestling team. And uh a lot of the guys would show me things, you know, and this was while I was a timekeeper, w whatever, when I was coming up. So then I finally got in the ring with George Weingroff, and boy, he stretched the snot out of me. I mean, oh, I couldn't move, and then he sugared me out or he didn't get me all the way out. And then uh you know, and that was to like push me away. Well, I came back the next week. And the next week we wrestled when when he went for it, um he couldn't get me. He couldn't get me, and then George got out of the ring and walked over and told my dad. He said he's ready, and Geor and uh my dad told me, he said, Son, this business is not for you. I blocked you once, I don't want to lose you again. And uh then I spoke with Dusty in New Orleans one night on Sunday night. They had a special show at St. Bernard, and he said, Well, maybe come on down to Florida and we'll see what we can do. And I went down to Florida, left home, uh, went down to Florida, and I didn't know till uh uh like a year and a half ago, two years ago, that JJ Dillon was in in uh uh he was involved because I was showing up at the towns, I always had my my my gear with me and everything, and JJ said give him a shot, you know. So uh September 13th, 1980, 83, uh I went into the office. We talked that morning. I said, um I I said I don't want to use my own name, you know. I I don't want any favors, you know. So he said, baby, you go if you're gonna be Mike Sam Houston. So September 18th or 13th, 1983, Mike Sam Houston got in the ring with Charlie Cook and had his first match. And wow, I all I gotta say is I can't believe it, you know. Yeah. That was my that was my uh induction into the into the wrestling.

SPEAKER_05 20:48

Now your your your real name, if you don't mind, is uh Michael Smith, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Michael Smith, yeah. Uh we're going through the process now. But I've been known as Sam Houston worldwide since 1983, or you know, let's do you know, you can say the nineties or whatever. But uh we're going through things right now with with a lawyer that uh we know that uh legally changed. Yeah, do a legal name name change. That way everything falls under one blanket.

SPEAKER_05 21:18

Right. You own the name no matter what.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Yeah, yeah. So I'd be cool then. But anyway, so I met Bart then and uh and then when we got to the Carolinas, we had matches now before I became champion.

SPEAKER_05 21:33

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Uh you know, uh they'd always put put us out there and I mean and we would always tear the house down. We could always get the people get, you know, and and it no matter if if one of the first matches was bad and they'd lost the tone of the show or what have you. Me and Bart could go out there and and get the people and uh get the people involved. And uh uh just uh I I remember uh one the after I got the twenty-seven stitches put in my head in Fayetteville, I had to wrestle Bart in Fayetteville. It was I Bart was supposed to work with somebody else, and I was just supposed to be in Magnum and Dusty's corner that first night, you know, with them. The attendance had gone from six thousand dollars, box office was six thousand dollars the week before, and then I gave the main event shot with them, and it goes uh after the the stitches, uh, and it got the gate was over eighteen thousand, so it more than tripled the house.

SPEAKER_05 22:34

So how'd you get uh eighteen stitches?

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Uh I ran or 27 stitches.

SPEAKER_05 22:39

27 stitches.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Yeah. Oh uh Dusty was wrestling with Tully and uh uh and it was like uh Baby Doll's first appearances, or just when she first started her first appearances, and she was dressed more like a punk rocker than anything else, uh uh with all the spikes and you know stuff. And uh uh I was watching the match and she threw the bracelet, the gauntlet, into the ring to Tully in the Bob War match. Tully uses it to open Dusty up. I I ran down to the ring to check on Dusty, then he used it on me to open me up, and I ended up with 27 stitches over my eyes.

SPEAKER_05 23:19

Was that your your first time getting collar, or was that your first major time getting colour?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

That was no the second time.

SPEAKER_05 23:26

Second time.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Second time.

SPEAKER_05 23:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Yeah, the first time for myself, though, yeah doing it. Anyway, um everything got dead silent. Uh Arn and Ole had to come down to the ring and get Tully and and uh baby doll out of there. I mean, it was a it was a that pin drop moment. Jake talks about it.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

You there's stuff that happens that you know who So you had you had the baby face sympathy from the crowd, and that really helped uh uh get your position up there.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

And then all of a sudden, yeah, then the next week, so then they get they put me in there with Bart. I'm gonna wrestle Bart. And the people were thunderous loud. I mean, I'm I'm talking about shake the roof, shake the the walls, everything. It was uh it was enormous. And Dusty, before the match ever started, you know, though the finish was already laid out, but Bart was gonna go over. And before the match ever started, Dusty ran down to the ring and changed everything on the fly right there. And what was cool was Bart go Bart tell tell told Tommy Young, tell him I already know, you know. Bart said he if he'd have beaten me, he would not have made it out of that building alive. You know, it was it was that hot. So anyway, yeah, that started got me start, you know, started going and everything. And then I, you know, started working like I was working every night and and I was on the road with some incredible people, you know. But the feud with Bart, that gave us something. You know, you get your teeth into that piece of raw hide, you know, and that's what me and Bart were, you know, we we we gosh, we oh, we worked hard, we had fun. Uh you know, um Bart wasn't uh you know a Kurt Henning or uh uh or Eddie Gilbert or a Rick Flair or any of that. Barr was more like Rip from Yellowstone.

SPEAKER_05 25:38

You know, my favorite show by the way.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

And and and but he went out there and we had some of the best matches in my career. I know in both our careers. Matter of fact, I was gonna show you folks and stuff. This is the Bart's autographed book. This is the one he he autographed to me. No, this is the one he autographed to me. Sorry. You know, it says, Sam, uh thank you for all you've helped and and uh wait. Thank you for all your help. I can't read this last thing, and it says, Oh, thank you for all your help and contributions. Uh I'm sorry, y'all. And it says, to the best worker in the business, Black Barton.

SPEAKER_05 26:35

That's very nice.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

I just so people I've got I've got uh I I went ahead because I'm I'm I'm trying to help, you know, guys, wrestlers don't have life insurance or anything like that and stuff. And uh uh Bart's uh Bart's uh widow, Linda, uh she's a super sweet lady, but she doesn't have a lot of connections in the wrestling business or anything else like that. So I told her uh I went ahead and and got the the rest of the autograph books that Bart signed, and I've got these, and I want to continue making contributions to Linda. So if people would like an autograph copy of Black Bart's book, please reach out to us at Sam Houston. You can get your copy for $100. You know, there's uh I think of only about 20 left, uh maybe 25. But um I want to, you know, he's gone. And uh, but the wrestling fans out there, you know, if you want something valuable, we can help. And we can help, you know, because wrestlers, like I said, we don't get life insurance and stuff like that. Now, one of the things that broke my heart was uh um I went down to Dallas when they did WrestleMania in Dallas the second time. Well, I did I I was there both times, but the second time they did it, uh my wife and I went and I was my own vendor. And I I got there and I found out that you know nobody had barred at a vendor table or anything else. And I asked him if he would like to, you know, because he was dealing with his medical issues then. I asked him if he'd like to come and share my table with me. So he came up, and while we were sitting there talking, we were talking about our matches and everything, and I had this idea. Um and Bart actually, I I I purchased the bells and the rope and everything, and then Bart made like many Texas bull ropes, and I've signed one side of it, and Bart signed the other side of it, and this is the good part. It comes in a potato sack, tongue in cheek, a potato sack with my image on one side and Bart's image on the other. And then these are gonna uh these are uh there's only 14 left, and they're $500 a piece. But this is so that we may continue to keep making uh donations. And then I've got some uh Blackbart uh some pictures of me and Blackbart, 8 by 10 black and white pictures of some of our bloodier battles, and he's already signed them, and as soon as the order comes in, I'll autograph them too, and we'll send them out for $100 a piece so we can so we can continue to get give back and help people. You know, very nice. Uh he helped a lot of people in the business as far as training. You know, he trained JBL. Yeah. And I I hear, okay, I hear he he he was behind him and Bobby Duncan. JBL and uh uh uh John Hawk was his name back then. Uh John Hawk and Bobby Duncan were a tag, Bobby Duncan Jr. were a tag team partner in Texas. And Bart helped them quite a bit. Uh and he got him up there in it, and then I polished uh Bobby Duncom Jr. off quite a bit, and then uh then I got uh tag me and uh Johnny Hawk, JBL, were tag team partners uh in Texas quite a bit, and we wrestled the the Rock and Roll Express all over the place for the NWA tag team title. So that was pretty cool. You know, pretty cool stuff.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

Um before we get into the next thing, um so any of the uh stuff uh right there that Sam just mentioned, uh the book, the pictures, and the uh bull rope, um, I will be putting it on a link uh so everyone can uh that's watching the show on our social media and stuff, so it's gonna link to Sam and uh uh I'll have pictures and stuff like that when I uh air the show.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Um, can I say something? And I just and I don't want to be rude when I say this or sound this way, but you know, um if you want if you want one of these things, great. And I I uh but but don't come and start trying to say, oh, well, I'll give you 75 or I'll give you yeah. Um no. You know, um this is this is what we're doing to help. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like if somebody goes to like these fairs and stuff like that, and and somebody that's uh uh mentally challenged challenged or or physically challenged makes crafts or something, yeah, and they've got their things on a table, and somebody goes, Well, I'll give you ten dollars for it, and it's gotta, you know, why are you gonna do that to somebody that definitely needs to be paid for the work that they're doing? You know? 100%. But again, you know.

SPEAKER_05 31:36

And Black Bart was your friend. And uh for those who don't know, Black Bart passed away in uh January of 19 of January 9th, 2025, is as I look at the never reliable Wikipedia.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Um he helped me with my cancer and the dish the decisions I was making. But let me go ahead and tell you a little bit more about Bart. We wrestled in Baltimore one night. And uh back then the NW had the A team and the B team. And the A team was Flair and the Four Horsemen and Dusty, and then the B team was the Rock and Roll Express and the Midnight Express, and me and Bart. So me and Bart were in the semifinal in Baltimore. We had a match that just tore the house down. I mean, it was a Texas death match. The State Athletic Commission tried to get involved to stop it, everything everything. It just we tore the house down. So we come back, and now we go back to Baltimore, and now everybody's it's a super card. So I'm in with uh against Black Bart in a regular match. Now the that I show there, we were in Texas deat match. So I walk up to Dusty and I said, Dusty, I said last time we were in a Texas deat match. I said, now we're just in second match, you know. He said, I said, how do we follow that? He said, baby, follow it the best way you know how. Well, went over and told Bart, he said, damn it, make a bleed. So we went out there and we beat each other up. We beat the state athletic commission up. The people were going ape shit crazy. Uh just it was a wild night for us. We make it back to the dressing room. The state athletic commissioner was gonna try to close the show down. Bart talks about it in his book. Um, and then the same thing, uh, but they were gonna close the show down and uh uh and told Dusty to go out to the ring and make an announcement. And Dusty said, no, you go make an announcement. They didn't want to do that. So the show went on, but the people were physically just emotionally spent. Uh whenever the Road Warriors and Rock and Roll Express Flair, whenever all these big names, whenever they went out to the ring, the people were like, eh, they had nothing left in them because they'd used it all on me and Bart, you know, and that happened in in uh uh Pennsylvania and uh Maryland. So we're not allowed to wrestle, we weren't allowed to wrestle in those two states.

SPEAKER_05 34:15

Um how many bull rope matches did you have with them? Well or Texas death matches, like how many?

SPEAKER_01 34:22

We we had uh bull rope matches, we ended up having Texas death matches, uh, you know, the just wherever, you know, whenever they needed a gimmick match or or wanted a gimmick match or needed something to pizzazz the main event or because me and Bart, I don't think we ever worked main event on any of the uh on any of the B team shows, but we were always semifinal.

SPEAKER_05 34:46

And you guys laid each other in pretty good, so yeah, yeah. We worked the first got hit with that with that bell many times.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Yeah, uh yeah. One night I I dropped my deal.

SPEAKER_05 34:57

You rung your bell.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Yeah, no, I dropped my deal. Uh you know, I I carried my thing on my finger, I dropped my thing, and my it was it was outside show, and Mark dropped on the floor and he grabbed me by the hair and I was hollering, wait, wait, and he slams me in the post. I said, I dropped my thing, and he looks, he goes, You don't need it now. But that's part of the business, you know? The hard way. Yeah. So you gotta get it in it.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Is this a feud that you took from territory to territory, or is this just something that was like something you did exclusive to Mid-Atlantic?

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Well, that was uh me and okay, when I got to Texas and everything, I worked against Bart quite a few times, and then when Crockett came in and took over Texas, uh uh he came in and uh one of his things was our uh he was gonna make me and Bart tag team partners. Well, I'd already had a uh a deal laid out, and and Bart and Mike Davis both knew it. You know, every time I got in the ring with them, I was gonna potato them one time during that match because of things they'd done to me when I was breaking in. So one time in every match, I get in there and I'd cross their eyes. He hit them right here in the middle of the forehead and set them on their butt in the corner. I tag I would tag in, Mike Davis would be holding the guy's arm, and I would hit Mike, and then I'd grab the guy's arm. Even if he was my tag team partner, Bart the same way, getting him every time. So anyway, uh we just we just knew it was I mean, I knew I was gonna get the receipt, but hey, that was the fun in it, you know. Um but yeah, uh so me and Bart were tag team partners, and then were you guys heels?

SPEAKER_05 36:48

Were you heels?

SPEAKER_01 36:49

No, we were baby faces. Baby faces.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

Well, I can't picture Black Bart as a baby face.

SPEAKER_05 36:58

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

So I'm in the ring in Waco, Texas, working. I got a short arm scissor on Murdoch, and I've been in there for a while, so finally I need to tag out and catch my breath. Reach up, tag Bart. I roll up, hold the arm out, and Bart grabs the arm and I'm getting out of the ring. And he turns back around, he tags me back. He says, Sam, you're gonna have to show me how you did that hole. I said, I've had you in that hold a hundred times. And he goes, I've always been in it. I ain't never done it. I had to get back in the ring. Oh, it was a whole production. I had to show him how to twist in and get in the book. Oh, it's great. Things like that that you remember that you remember that are just, you know, stick out like, you know, I guess diamonds in your memories and stuff, those flashing points, you know. But always had a had fun with Bart. Uh and he, you know, and he was the world champion. Oh, by the way, I was oh, I now remember what I was gonna tell you. If uh if you have anybody listening that would be interested in purchasing uh Bart's two titles from world-class championship wrestling, I understand that they're looking around now. I'm thinking they're gonna go for about $3,500 apiece. One is when he was the world champion, and one was when he was the world-class uh world tag team champions. So if anybody's out there and they want to find out more information on that.

SPEAKER_05 38:25

And those are not replicas, those are the legitimate.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Those are his actual titles that he carried.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

The world class title is one the heavyweight championship is one of the best belt designs of all time. That thing was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

Well, he's got the tag team, the world-class tag team titles. Now, his uh world-class world title is looks like a replica of the old NWA world title.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Okay.

unknown 38:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

So, but that's the one he held, and that that's the one I saw on ESPN.

SPEAKER_05 38:58

Yeah, if you have photos or something at some point, uh we'll probably send them to you.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

I'll send it to you.

SPEAKER_05 39:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

But anyway, and then uh I guess you know, fast forward years, one of the things that hurt me the bat worst was when Mart signed, you know, came there and signed autographs at my table. Uh one of the fans wanted uh and and Mart sold him his those wrestling boots that Dusty Rhodes had given him. Oh you know, Dusty had died a few years earlier, and you know, this is the last thing out of your career, or you know, one of the big things out of your career to be remembered by for your family, and you know, but he had to let those go for a thousand dollars. You know, and broke my heart.

SPEAKER_05 39:45

So much more.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

So yeah, so I paid Bart to make the belt, I mean, uh to make the bull ropes and everything, and then we signed them, and you know, so I'm gonna help out on that. Um, but yeah, that kind of hurts. Uh well, Bart had cancer and he was undergoing cancer treatments and stuff like that. Well, I I started calling him up after that, and we'd talk once a week or a couple of times a week, and then when I found out about his uh uh how bad the cancer was, we were talking every other day, and he was going through the chemotherapy, and and he was like, he was crying on the phone to me. He's like, Sam, there's killing me, it's killing me. And you know, I uh I was trying to learn about you know uh natural uh cures uh that help and everything. Well, um Charlie Norris passed, my tag team partner. Uh I don't know anybody will remember, but yeah, we went around the world uh we went around the world seven times together.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

I remember Charlie Norris and WCW, but I think that was at the tail end of his career.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

That's him. Yeah, we were the renegades. We went farther than his WCW career, which never took us. Uh five super successful tours of Japan, the the the New Guinea thing, the whole nine yards. But anyway, I got together uh with Charlie, and uh uh Charlie had passed away, so I went up to Minnesota. I mean, we're we were he and I were closer than brothers. So, you know, we're the same person, just a little bit different in height and weight and stuff like that. I mean, there it we were the same, it was it's it was weird, you know, so many coincidences and things. I was I'm 10 days older, but you know, just different things. And we worked well together. Uh we were a well-old team. When Charlie had passed, well, when I got word, my wife and I jumped in my truck and we drove to uh Minnesota. And uh when we got there, you know, um I had to go through his things and and find out if you know, find everything, you know, give his things away through Indian traditions and stuff. So um while I was up there, we had the uh his his uh ceremony, and then I had to uh now I I I had been worked at the uh cemeteries in New Orleans uh for a while in the 90s and 90s and 2000s. Um so cemetery work wasn't you know foreign to me. I wasn't sure of all the the different traditions because different things have different traditions. Well, I had to get in Charlie's grave and and uh you to put the co the coffin in a box and then the the best friends got to get down there and hammer the lid on the box and then you cover it up with dirt. So but anyway, a few things happened on that, uh, on that well, uh the uh medicine man that uh officiated Charlie's uh funeral, his name is Jason Hart. Well, the family realized, you know, that um I've been a member of the tribe for 30 years and had never gotten my Indian name. So uh we Jason uh said you know agreed to give me my my my spiritual name. You know, but there's uh you know a protocol to it. You have to do a tobacco journey, you know, and this, that, and the other. So you know, they give me the protocol. So I come back home from the funeral, and then uh I was diagnosed with uh stage one lung cancer. And and it wasn't from smoking, it was a genetic uh disorder in my in and it the the the doctor came and told me I was like, it's from I was smoking forty four years. He goes, It's not from cigarettes, it's from a a genetic mutation from something. It's like, okay, and it was a small nodule. Well, right away I knew I wanted to have it taken out and uh and uh the the they wanted to do a biopsy first. Well, uh but I wanted, you know, the uh I I looked into it because this is my body, you know. But I knew they they were telling me the the upper right lobe that they could go in and just take that little piece out and I'd lose 15% of my my uh wind. Well, before I did that I wanted to do uh I wanted to get my name, my Indian name. So we made the tobacco journey. Jason met us in uh in uh Green Bay, Wisconsin. We went out to a lake, we went through uh he we went through a a learning, a teaching, you know, uh the Ojibwe teachings. Uh so we we had an afternoon with that, everybody went back the next day. Then in uh July we went up for the powwow. And when we went up, my daughter was there, uh, my wife was there, we went up for the powwow, and uh we went through the my naming ceremony, and Jason asked me, he said, What do you want? And I said, Only the truth, you know, uh through all my teachings that I've been getting. And uh, you know, uh so anyways, we're going through the ceremony and everything, and I was given my name, everybody went around the circle, and he announced my name, and my Indian name, my Ojibwe name is Memushkawigabo, which means still standing strong. He said, Sam, he said, when I smoked your tobacco, he said, the spirits talked to me like they have never talked to me before. He said, You've had a wild life, you know, and I have. So uh, but anyway, he gave me the name Still Standing Strong after the Pow Wow and everything. We uh drove, my wife and I drove back to the Carolinas, uh, and then uh uh two days later I had uh my lung removed, the upper right lobe of my lung. So the first day after the surgery, I got up and I walked 300 yards, and then the second day I walked 600 yards, so they went ahead and released me to go home. Uh I get we get home and uh I'm there for a week and we go in for the doctor consultation visit, and he tells me, he says, uh, he said, uh, we're sorry to inform you, but your stage one uh lung cancer is now stage three. So when we did the biopsy, they cut into the tumor, the cancer, the sickness leaked out around my heart valve and around the uh my esophagus, the bottom of my what year was it?

SPEAKER_05 46:37

What year was this, Sam?

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Two years ago.

SPEAKER_05 46:40

Two years ago, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Um 24, yeah. So uh they cut it out, uh, then they tell me stage uh stage three cancer, and they offered me the the they they told me they said uh your treatment plan is gonna require um targeted radiation, uh chemotherapy, and then we have this uh pill that's got about $17,500 a month for the prescription, and you have to take that for one to three years. Well, I was on the phone with Bart every day, and I you know, and I'm just newly married and everything, and I'm I'm having the happiest life, I've got the greatest wife, um, but uh you know, and uh here I'm I've got to choose the way I'm gonna die. You know, and how I'm gonna go out is are these people gonna witness me screaming like what my friend did to me? You know, and I didn't want that. And uh I prayed, I did everything, and then the medicine man, um Jason has replaced Charlie basically, kinda in my life and and everything, because I'm trying to learn. I I'm part Chippewa, I mean I'm I'm I'm part uh Comanche and part uh uh Cherokee. And then I'm but I'm a member of the Chippewa Nation, and and that's where I'm I'm getting my learning from now, or learning from now. But uh so Jason has basically replaced Charlie's uh position in my life as a brother and a friend and everything. So I was getting ready for the targeted radiation, and I was like two weeks into it, and it had me dragging, dragging, dragging. And I had I had told him no on the uh chemotherapy, but that targeted radiation, it was taking it out of me. You know, I it wasn't as bad as chemo, I don't think, but it was taking it out of me. I had no energy, it was just dragging. So we make arrangements. He tells me, he says, Sam, he goes, I can do an eagle bones healing ceremony on you. And uh he told me about it, and he told me it's a little boy and uh water drum healing ceremony done with eagle bones, and he explains it out to me, so we make arrangements for him to come out. He came out the third week into the targeted radiation for the weekend, and uh dude, it was the most beautiful thing. They would pick him up at the airport after my radiation that day, and I was dead. But uh, you know, uh uh we got back to the house, we got our things loaded up, and we went to uh uh my wife's family, and we have a cabin up in Boone, North Carolina. It's just beautiful, and that's where I wanted to be in nature, you know, where where you can feel the creator around you. So we go there, and it has a we have a creek and the whole nine yards there, and uh big staircase down to it, so it's not too difficult. So I wanted to do the uh the healing ceremony there. So we get there on Friday. Uh the the girls went to the grocery store to get groceries for us, and Jason and I were sitting outside smoking a cigarette, and a white weasel ran by. And he goes, That's a good sign. I didn't know what he was talking about, but um anyway, they found out the next day. A white weasel ran by. Anyway, we had a good evening that evening, good meal. The next morning, we're starting to prepare and get ready. Well, when we get ready to start doing the ceremony, we lay out the blanket, we lay all the gifts out, and uh we start doing with the ceremony. He takes the uh the drum, and we've got to put the drum together with these stones that were made by the thunder beams. They're perfectly round stones, and but you tie the drum together. So he tells us the story of the old grandmother and the little boy in the tree while we're tying the water drum together and the sickness. So as we go through that, he had the drum put all together. My wife and I did all the tying and everything. When it turns, he then at the end of the thing when he tells us about the drum, he tells us when he plays the drum, he points to the center on the on the up underside of the drum. He said, the sickness will go here to the center of the universe. He spun over. We went in, we did our ceremony, played the drum. When he was laying out the gifts and everything, he laid out an animal pelt, and it was a white weasel. The same like the like the white weasel we'd seen the night before. Anyway, uh we would do do our ceremony. Uh he gave my wife tobacco in her hand to go outside and pray. When we went upstairs and did the doctoring, he did the doctoring. Uh he used a copper cup. I drink water out of a copper. Now that I know about copper and it uh um it uh cleans your water, you know, uh any carcinogens and stuff like that. That purifies water. So that's all I drink out of now. But he used a like like a copper uh glass uh with creek water, um living water, he used creek water, and then uh we went upstairs, they did we did a couple uh songs with the drum, then he used uh um a golden eagle feather, uh uh a young golden eagle feather to show him where the sickness was in my body, poured the water on me, and then used the eagle bone to suck, to ingest, to ingest the sickness out of me into him. And then he regurgitated in a ziploc bag, you know, sealed it, and then I had to go and bury that bag to where it could hurt no other creatures. So uh I was halfway up the mountain and I dug me a big old hole, you know, three-foot hole, and put that sickness in there and covered it all up. Okay, then we got we're coming back the the following day, or the next morning I wake up and I walk down to the creek, and it's like 60 stairs. The staircase is a winding staircase that takes you to the creek. So I go down to the creek and I would go and and I go there every morning and sit there and smoke a cigarette with my partner and talk to Charlie, you know. And I'm sitting there and I was like, wow, my side's burning. And he said, Well, wash it off in the in the living water, is the the way it came to me. So I grabbed some creek water and threw it on me a couple of times, and I was like, okay, so now walk back up the stairs. Before I made it back up to the stairs to my to the R level, which is the bottom level of the cabin, before I made it to the top of the stairs, burning and quit. I walk in the bedroom, I tell my wife, and I took a big chance because she doesn't like to get woke up like this. But I woke her up and I I told her, I said, my side's not burnt, you know, I couldn't believe it. So she gave, we got up and everything. We went on through our uh, you know, normal day and and I had energy, you know, but I didn't know if I had energy because uh I had I didn't do radiation the day before or if or what it was, but I had more energy, so I felt good. And then so the next day I take Jason and uh Aaron um uh to the airport, Jason and Aaron, uh his girlfriend to the airport. She's also his helper, and she got helps with medicines and stuff like that, natural medicines. Anyway, I take them to the airport, and he tells me I've got to find some place where a skunk has been run over or you know, a skunk's been somewhere. He goes, I need to smell that for about 10 or 15 minutes. You know, he said, that's strong medicine for your lungs. And uh was like, okay, well, now I've got like skunk funk. And wouldn't you know, just so happens. So when I dropped them off of the airport, as I'm leaving the airport, my mother-in-law calls me and she said, Are you on your way home? And I said, Yes, ma'am. She says, Your grand, uh, she goes, your father-in-law has killed a skunk in the barn, and it's horrible. We need help. So I knew I got my skunk funk there. I got me about a half hour of good old clean skunk funk on that one. You know. So then I go back to the radiated radiation uh doctors, and I go there for like three or four days, and they're kind of looking at me funny. And then on the doctor consultation day, my wife, Kim, we go in together, and the guy goes, You how did you change your diet? What have you changed about the, you know, what what is going on with you? And I told him. And he spun around in his chair, and he said, Sir, you're an ethnomerical. He said, We he said, last week you were at stage three cancer. This week we can't find any cancer in your body. You know, I went ahead and completed the last two weeks of the radiation. It did not make me tired because of the foods I think and the things I was doing to help my body heal, you know. Uh, yeah, you you got you, you know, it's possible to beat it.

SPEAKER_05 56:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

You know, I want people to know. You but you need to change your diet, you need to have faith.

SPEAKER_05 56:37

Now you're completely cancer free right now?

SPEAKER_01 56:39

I'm completely cancer free. Just went to the uh last month on that, had the new CT scan done. Not a spot on me. I'm doing really good. That's so I'm that's so every day's above ground is a good day.

SPEAKER_05 56:57

That that is awesome. Uh are are are we okay to go? Are you still okay to keep going a little while longer? Um I want to get into some road stories. Um, I remember the first episode you did with us. You did the story with Dusty Rhodes and the peeing in the car uh on his car and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Uh, do you have any more, anything different, anything new that you could Well, you know, me and Jake, we were kind of uh uh have I told you any of about us?

SPEAKER_05 57:24

I think I remember Jake's story too in that uh in the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

But for all the fans who didn't put the snake on me?

SPEAKER_03 57:32

No, he wasn't the one Mary put the snake on you.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

No, oh let's hear that one.

SPEAKER_03 57:36

Yeah, let's hear that one.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Okay, uh working for uh Vince and everything, and you know they had us travel like you wouldn't believe. So, you know, you you hook up with your buddies, you hook up with your friends that you that you know when you're on the road. So if if Jake and Duggan and me were together, you know, we'd always hang together, you know, because the old Mid-South guys would kind of hang together some. But, you know, you travel with just about anybody. But uh anyway, but if we were together, we were renting the car together the whole nine yards. So uh we get to Boston, and I'd already uh quit sharing rooms. I think the thing with Lenny Paffo had uh already happened uh in Toronto.

SPEAKER_03 58:26

Um we'll go back to the room.

SPEAKER_05 58:30

I had quit sharing rooms. Yeah, we we need to know about that.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

Yeah, we need to hear the Lenny Paffo story.

SPEAKER_05 58:35

Is that the whole thing where he uh could do something really flexible? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

Yeah, yeah, that was the whole story on that.

SPEAKER_05 58:42

Do you know about that, Josh? No, I have never heard that story. So Lanny could uh maybe uh Sam should play it.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

Satisfy himself orally.

SPEAKER_05 58:51

Yeah. Yeah. He uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

And when you walk in on that, it's a heck of a heck of a trick.

SPEAKER_03 59:00

Yeah, I I don't know that I'd want to walk into my roommate doing that.

SPEAKER_01 59:04

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, oh that had already happened. So so I don't share rooms with nobody no more. I did there was something happening in Florida, and so I after those couple of experiences, I decided I didn't want to share rooms with nobody no more. Uh until Charter came off. So so anyway.

SPEAKER_05 59:29

I kind of wonder how what Vince's reaction to hearing about that would be. That's that's magnificent. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

I don't know in the attitude era he would have made that Papho's gimmick.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

So anyway, uh I was gonna say I don't I I will not I won't bash the dead, but that's not that's not bashable. You know, anyway, so I I didn't care rooms for nobody. We show up in Boston and we we ride the shuttle over to the uh hotel, the the airport Hilton there on the airport grounds there in Boston. So uh Jake looks at me when we're checking in, he goes, Man, the rooms are 160 bucks a night here. He said, We're only gonna be in the room about four or five hours, you know, two to seven or whatever. Because you gotta figure you're gonna be in the bar till two. So you wanna just share a room? And I was I just I remember sitting there, okay, you're my brother, okay, I'll do it with you. So we get a room together, okay. Everybody goes to the room, we all call home, okay, honey, gonna go have a beer, you know. Then we go down to the bar. And back then we they were we used to H-bomb every people all the time and shave eyebrows and all kinds of stuff. Well, I'm sitting there having my beer, and I feel like everything's closing in on me, and I'm in this cave and this dark time. So right away I know I've been H-bomb. And I look at Duggan and Jake, and I'm like, you MF first. I said, if I wake up with no eyebrows, I'm gonna kill you both. There's oh no, no, no, we're not gonna do that, we're not gonna do that. So I make it to the room. I mean, I I'm I'm struggling, but I make it to the room. I get to the room, I rip my clothes off. I lay there, I just fall on the bed, I'm laying there. Now, the thing about halcyons, when you wake up on a halcyon, you wake up pretty crisp, like you've had a cup of coffee already, you know. But I wake up, and Damien's head is right here on my shoulder. Now, this snake's head is about this wide, you know. He was a big snake. And his head is right here. I'm not afraid of snakes. I used to have to help him with them all the time and stuff when it'd go nuts and stuff. But I'm not afraid of snakes, but I don't want to, I don't want them wrapped around me when I'm sleeping. So I jump up one step and I'm uh halfway to the door. The second step, I'm out the door running down the hall. Then I realize I ain't got a stitch of clothes on. Oh no. You know? So I run back to the room. Now I'm banging on the door and Jake's not letting me in. Oh my God. You know, he knew he knew he's not letting me in, but I'm making so much room and the noise in the hall. Duggan comes out across the hall out of his room, throws a bed spread on me, takes me back to his room. I have to sit there until Jake goes to the airport before he'll let me in the room because he knows I'm oh I'm mad. So anyway, I don't see my brother for six weeks, you know, and then we got back together um out in Wisconsin, had TV taping there. Uh it was this one town, it was a great town that had a holiday in though everybody stayed at. I can't remember the name of the town right now. But Jake was wearing, he'd just he'd started wearing these Don Johnson uh Miami Vice, you know, suits, you know, the silk suits, and everything, and he had just been on the cover of Ellery Queen magazine, the little crime magazine. And when he sees me at the TV, he's like, you know, people everybody I where everywhere I go now, people are recognizing me on the cover of Ellery Queen and this, that, and the other. Well, you look like something, you know. So I'm like, okay. But it had been six weeks from the snake incident. So after the TV taping.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:07

So you probably forgot about getting you getting them back.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Oh, yeah. After the TV taping, uh, we come back to the hotel bar and we're we're having some some bar, yeah, some beers.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:20

Well, hold on. Your sound cut out. You hear me? So hold on, you your sound cut out. Just back up just a little bit. I hear you. Oh, okay. You hear me? Okay. Yeah, we're going, we're good. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

Okay. So uh anyway, he uh uh he's sitting there in his suit and he drinks his beer. Well, about 20 minutes eight later, boy, he starts getting that lean, you know. When you start and then the drool starts. So when the drool started and everything, I was like, oh no, Jake, you've been H bomb. We gotta get you up out of here, you know, because he was the number three man in the company. And he was, you know, everybody was out to stab him in the back. I mean, come on, be be real. Yeah, he had his demons and stuff like that. But one of the things was he was just too good and nobody could really compete with him on the business level, on the mind level, and uh therefore there was a lot of daggers out for him. But uh I was like, we gotta get you out of here, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm running my mouth 90 miles an hour. And I walk into the front desk and I was like, ma'am, look at him. I said, This is my brother. He's been Mickey's in the bar. I said, give me the key to his room. She said, Sir, you're checked in under Houston. He's under Roberts. I can't do that. I said, ma'am, he's six foot seven, 270 pounds. I'll leave him with you. Here's his key. I carry him to his room, I get him to his room, and I just throw his ass on his bed. I just throw him down, then I go over there and uh uh push the Had the spectrovision on the TV and you watch the the uh release new new new release movies for nine dollars apiece.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

So went over and pushed the first button. You gotta let that play for five minutes to get charged to nine dollars, and then you go push another button. So he he bought all nine of those movies. He didn't watch them, but he purchased them, and then I picked up the phone and I called and I got me a case of beer, uh bottle of crown roll, and uh two-liter coke uh on him and got me a couple steak dinners, found his found the smoke, smoked all that, you know, and then that wasn't enough. You know, that just wasn't enough. And I was sitting there and I'm looking and I'm looking at what time it is, and I watched all these movies now. I'm looking at what time it is, and and I'm thinking he needs to get to the airport super early. So his flight was at 6 30 and mine was like 7 15. So how can I make that happen? Oh, I know. I'll set the alarm, his clock. I'll set the time part two hours early. So it was two o'clock in the morning, so I set his uh clock to where it said four o'clock in the morning, and he's got to get up in two and a half hours. So I go back on to my room at four o'clock in the morning. I go back to his room. I got the front the rent of car at the front desk. Um I'm sitting there, I go to his room, I'm banging on the door, Jay, Jay, Jay, come on, come on. They use my key to get in, go over there, shake him away, point at the alarm clock. It's six o'clock, brother. We gotta get you to the airport because Vent had a fine if you missed your flight. And he would always put us on the first flights out. Um I was like, we got to get you to the airport, yeah. And he's like, oh. And he's getting up and picking stuff up, and I'm helping him with his gear and telling him, I've been at the front desk, blah, blah, 20 minutes honking the horn, waiting on you. So, oh, before that happened, though, before I left the room, after I set the alarm clock off, I I should tell you this. We wore those boogie bags back then, the fanny packs.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:23

Oh, fanny packs.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:24

Yeah, I unzipped mine, and you got a sharpie marker for signing autographs. And Jake had a forehead, just a big beam in the forehead, you know. So I wrote stupid across his head in my sharpie marker.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:39

He was just asking.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

But now we're running down. He hadn't looked in the mirror yet, because I'll I'll get him up so fast. We're running down the hall. As we run by the lady at the front desk, he throws her the key, she catches the key, and she goes, you know, because he got stupid on his head. And he looks at her, he goes, Yeah, baby, it's me. I got the coolest brother. You know. So anyway, so I I I I'm running my mouth 90 miles an hour the whole way to the airport. It wasn't that far, just a couple of minutes. I said, I'm gonna drop you off at the front. Uh, you know, my flight's not for 45 minutes. I'm gonna drop you off, get you off, you know. If I see you inside, I see you inside. If I don't, I see you down the road. I drop him off when I dropped him off outside. He's looking because it's still dark, you know, and he's supposed to be like running late, you know. So he walks in. I go drop the rental car off, and I come back, and I come back on the elevator, and he's standing at a US Air desk by himself. There's this one uh blonde lady, uh, attendant working on his stuff, you know, but there ain't nobody there. So I walk right up and she's she her eyes, oh they were so shiny with tears, it was funny. She's looking at him and smiling. Yeah, and other ticket agents from the other uh airlines are poking out of their office from behind their desk, waving at him. And I go up and I stand next to him, and he goes, Man, he goes, That Ellery Queen magazine, everybody's stopping and waving at me. I was like, Yeah, yeah. And I turn back to the lady and she her, I know her face is uh hurting because she's laughing. And she looks at me and she like does her head toward towards him a couple times, and I just looked at her and smiled. So Jake turns around to me and he goes, Man, it's only 420 in the morning. I said, damn it, Jake. I bet it was those damn British bulldogs. I don't know how they keep pulling these ribs and stuff like that, but somebody's gotta do something. I said, they're getting everybody, you know? He's like, Yeah, yeah. He goes, I guess you turn the car in. I said, yeah, he goes, let's go get some breakfast. So as we go through security, he has got to take pictures. They want pictures. Everybody wants pictures. So we make it down the concourse to the runway or to the restaurant or the uh where the plates are going, and there's a restaurant, and a woman's wiping off a table, so we walk in and she looks up and she kind of spits it. And he goes, Yeah, baby, it's me. Snake. As we sit down. So we both order a cup of coffee. He's looking at a menu, she comes back with the coffee and she's taking his order. Well, he writes an autograph, he signs an autograph for her and goes to hand it to her. Well, she didn't want that. So she goes like back and forth for it a couple of times. Finally, she takes it and puts it in her apron. He orders a big breakfast and he goes, bro, things have been going so fast this morning, he goes, I hadn't had time to to, you know, to uh go to the bathroom. So I'll be right back. As soon as he walked in that bathroom, boom, I hit the front door that was gone.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

So I knew he was out of there.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:25

So two months later, excuse me, two months later, we finally see each other in Toronto. I like to get to the buildings a few minutes, you know, earlier than anybody else, usually walk around and stuff. And uh when I walked into the dressing room door, uh I opened the door and Jake was sitting right there. He had another chair right next to the door, and he goes, Ha, huh, ha, huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:52

Sit down, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:54

You know. So I sat down and and then so we talked, he said, that was funny, blah, blah, blah. Are we gonna have any problems? I said, You don't do nothing now, well, you know, I'm cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:06

You know. Well yeah, we used to do stuff. Uh that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:12

Uh, and then well, he did do a a good one after that. Uh uh I'd had the, I guess during the steroid stuff and all that stuff up there. Uh, I had gotten into uh uh the parabolin uh for a little bit, and uh it was the cleanest drug you could take at the time for for enhancement. So I took that for a little bit, but I had uh I got roid rages. I raised my voice to my wife at the at the airport, and uh when I did that, I I quit taking it. So I was on steroids, but wasn't on them long. But anyway, while I was taking them, we were driving to South Bend, Indiana from some Wisconsin town again for TV taping. We were doing 100 miles an hour down this two-lane highway, and all of a sudden the road dog leg, but we shot across the intersection. Now we're on a one-lane dirt road. So he takes his foot off the gas and we ease our speed down, and we finally were on that one-lane dirt road, and we were trying to turn around, turn the Lincoln Town car, you know, and go back the other way. And uh he drove the front end off into a ditch, and the back end came off the ground, and the car was like this. Oh my goodness. And I thought I told him we got enough beer and weed, you know, to hang out for a while. He goes, we gotta get the TV taping. So they ain't gonna find us out here on this one lane third, bro. And he's like, he comes on, he goes, dude, he goes, if you get down in the ditch, he goes, as strong as you are on that stuff. Because my bench went from 460 pounds for one rep to 505 for eight or ten reps. I mean, I was just I was a beast. He said, if you get down in that ditch and pick up on the front bumper like that and press the bumper over your head, the back tires will hit the ground and I can get I can back us out of here. I was like, okay. So I get down in the ditch and I grab the front bumper and I give it an old good one. And I finally get it up and I press it, and the back tires hit the ground, and as soon as the pack tires hit the ground, because it had rained earlier as well, he hit those wheels and he covered me with like about an inch layer thick of mud. And then and he wouldn't let me get cleaned up. I had to sit in the car and drive the other hundred miles or whatever it was. I look like something out of the 101 Dalmatians movie, you know. But yeah, it was fun stuff on the road, but you know, I always have fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:55

Yeah. Um, and the uh we have about 10 to 15 minutes left. Um we'll try to keep it around 10. Uh, real quick, uh in the last episode four years ago, we uh we didn't we talked about whether you still watch wrestling. You said no, you don't really watch it now. D during the WrestleMania weekend a few years ago, did you did you meet any of the current stars? I mean, do you stay in contact with anybody, Dusty's kid or anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

Uh Cody or okay, when I when I see the guys I know in public, yeah, I go talk to them. I'm always the first one at an event that goes around and shakes hands with everybody there, and I always introduce myself even if I don't know him. You know, uh like the when I'm at the big show, I I walked up to him and I shook his head and introduced myself, and he about fell to his knees. Yeah you know, I didn't know that he thought I, you know, but he had me on that platform.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:53

He knew who you were, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:54

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, but yeah, I go around and now with uh with everything, I I take my wife everywhere with me now. So I think it's cool to take her around uh and introduce her to people and and and you know the everybody's got a story they want they got they can tell her about me. Flair, uh when I uh took her, we we went to New York to an event, and uh anyway, Flair was on the event, Kevin Nash, quite a few guys were on the event, and I you know I was able to take her. Well, when I took her over to Flair, uh, and Flair had a big line. I just wanted to slide by, shake hands with him, say, hey, you know, we're here, we'll catch up later. And I introduced Kim to uh Flair and uh he he stopped everything and he said, sit here for just a moment. So Kim sat down over there, he signed his autographs, you know, got it, got the line worked down, and then he said, I wanted to sit here and tell you about how cool your husband is. He said, He saved our lives in a riot in the Omni in Atlanta. And he told her the story about when uh got uh over the cage and the horse when it broken Dusty's leg, but the people were mobbed in and I had to get them out of the cage, so I took a beating from all four of them all the way back to get them to the dressing room to get to keep the people back and away. But because if they saw somebody else doing it, taking care of it, then they'll stay back. But if they don't, you know, so uh but he told her that story, and then she thinks I'm pretty special anyway. So uh, but hey, it it just it's just one of those things that you know props that feather back up in my cap, you know, that I was instrumental in doing something that I was, you know, and that's what that's how I want to be perceived now. I want to be able to I don't really watch the the stuff now. Um I mean I might watch something here or there or a match here or there. Um but it nothing if if it doesn't look believable, it's not worth my interest because that's not what I did, you know. What I did was I went out there and did the best job I could. I uh you know I didn't miss nobody when I when I hit 'em.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:18

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:19

Yeah, they they might not like it. Well, go back to flipping burgers, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:24

Josh, did you have any questions?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:26

Yeah, I did. Um, so back then, if you could have formed a tag team with anyone, who would it have been with and would you have been Babyfaces or Heels?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:37

Well, uh back when? I mean I had to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:40

Like in the 80s, uh like in the 80s, if you could have teamed with anyone who you weren't a normal tag team.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:47

Okay, when uh when I I was getting a job, getting my job back with WCW, and uh my dad ended up, I went I flew out uh to Atlanta, he got sick, he had to have his stomach removed. Well, Charlie Norris, I had met Charlie four years earlier at his tryout match with WWF, and he buried his thumb like halfway into my eye. And you know, and it wasn't a great match. I mean, it was it was a good match for a little bit. Uh, but uh then after that, he just, you know. So anyway, I I beat him with a bulldog. Uh four years later, I run into Charlie Norris at uh in Atlanta. He had signed on with WCW, and I'm pulling my dad out of the hospital, and I'm I'm taking him to the front desk, and there's this big Indian guy there. And uh he said, Sam Houston, do you remember me? And I was like, No. He said, You whipped my ass about four years ago. And I was like, Oh no, this big son of a gun wants to fight. So I'm taking my dad to the front desk, and he says, Uh, that's your dad? I said, Yeah. He said, Let me help you with it. So he helped me get my dad back to the room. We came back. You know, I was a big drinker back then, so we were drinking. And uh he helped me change my dad's wound uh bandages and his wounds and everything, and he told me about the troubles he was having at the developmental center, the power plant. So I said, Well, I'll go with you tomorrow, you know. So we we partied that night, and then we went to the ring the next day, and I was able to stay in the ring uh for three hours with him that day and go through a great workout. Well, uh, I ended up WCW was talking about getting, you know, offering me a contract, and my dad went back to the office and said, that's too much money for him. Um, just some bad stuff. Anyway, I went to Barnett, Jim Barnett, and uh talked to him about uh because Charlie and I had been working out for three months every day in the ring, hard too, for a couple hours, and uh putting us together in a tag. And then the next week uh he's in a tag with Dustin Rhodes. I I got nothing against Dustin or anything. I love Dustin to death, but it was kind of like that was, you know, that was what I was shooting for. And um and then so I I I kind of got disgusted with WCW with my dad and everything, uh cutting my my pay. Uh and so I went back to California, and then uh when Charlie's time with WCW was up, then you know, then we ventured out and we took up took over the PWA up in uh the Minnesota states and up around there. We were working out at the Houston, the uh Dallas office, and then we got all the so but I was also blessed with working with guys like Nelson Royal, who taught me how to be a ring general. He he taught me everything I needed, you know. Johnny Weaver. I've had wonderful tag team partners uh as far as being able to teach me and everything, but the only tag team partner that I is Charlie Norris. That's it for me. Okay. Because we were one, you know, and when you fit together so well, uh it's not gonna be any other way.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:09

Uh Josh, you had another question before you start rapid fire smash.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:13

Right. So if you and Charlie Norris had been a full-time tag team, would you want to be baby faces or heels?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:19

Oh, babyfaces, probably. You know, uh I tried being a heel twice, and the people just because it I still got teared. I poke a guy in the eye, you know, you know, they like my style, I guess. But yeah, I think you know, I think we'd have been uh I I think we would have made uh uh we would have been a dominant heel team if we'd have been a really dominant heel team, but we liked helping people.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:53

All right. Um so we're gonna finish this up, but uh because uh they need to use the studio. Um but we will um we have this one last segment and I call it Rapid Fire Smash. Seeing the podcast is double axe handle smash.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:07

Oh, okay. And so this is too.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:10

Oh, yeah. Well, you you want to go ahead and talk about that real quick, please. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:16

Um gosh, I I got given this uh I don't know, it's probably five, four or five years ago. Um a lot of folks don't know, but my my my dad was the one that uh put Bruiser Brody and Stan Hansen together for the first time and everything. And uh Brody uh worked an out of the crowd thing with Uncle Luke Brown in Lafayette, Louisiana. He was a fan and he jumped in the ring and got but anyway, he got his career going that there. And in Louisiana, uh he worked for my dad. Then you know he became Bruiser Brody and was going all over the world and stuff and did some good things. Well, I've known Brody since I was a little kid, since basically he first started. And uh a friend of mine had told me one of my offshore buddies was sick and not expected to do too, you know, make it too long. So I made a trip. I just drove by to surprise him because I do stuff like that every once in a while. I went down there to surprise him, come to find out, no, he was doing good. It was my other buddy who was messing with me, messing with my head. Well, I was already down in Florida and I saw that they were having the Legends luncheon that day. And as fate would have it, uh they were doing uh a thing on Bruiser Brody uh on on his career uh at the Legends Lunch in Tampa, and I showed up for that, and I know this is the double axe handle show, so I love it. I wanted to show you I got awarded the uh walking tall Buford Puster. So I just wanted to let you know I'm prepared for double axe. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:51

I appreciate it, thank you. So we're gonna do um just uh answer these as fast as you can. Um just one or two words or a sentence or whatever. Uh just we we just don't have a lot of time to go on. Uh so number one uh this is kind of a funny question. Does pineapple belong on a pizza?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:16

I like pineapples, and if you get all the pepperonis and black olives and pineapples. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:23

All right. Um favorite restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:26

It's called Hawaiian pizza. That'd be an ethnic pizza.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:28

Yeah, of course, of course. Uh favorite uh wrestler other pizza.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:32

Does corn belong on pizza?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:34

I'm sorry. Does what?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:37

Does corn belong on pizza?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:39

Mexican pizza. Yeah, I could see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:42

It's in Japan, they put corn on their pizza.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:45

I never heard of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:47

Okay.

unknown 1:26:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:48

Cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:49

Uh favorite wrestler other than your dad?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:53

Uh my daughter.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:54

Your daughter? That's good. That's a good answer. That's a good answer. I'll I'll I'll be looking up her. Uh maybe I can interview her next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:03

She stole the show last July up in Red uh Red Lake. She did uh Charlie's uh memorial show. She stole the show. She just did. I mean, I was so proud of her. I I I must have been busting out all over. I was just proud, Dad.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:20

We'll check her out. Uh Best James Bond. If you've ever seen any of the James Bond movies. What was the best one, you think? Best uh actor that played them.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:32

Yeah, um, okay. I yeah, yeah, I came up the the during the Roger Moore time, but I really think Sean Connery was a better James Bond.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:41

I think so too. Um Josh, you want to ask any of these?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:47

No, go ahead. You've got the voice in front of you.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:49

Favor announce a team that announced your matches.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:55

Oh gosh. Um I would ooh. Uh Jim Ross and I I'm not sure he who he would do it with uh Gordon Soly. No, well Gordon Soley was awesome. Uh Gordon Soly was awesome in Atlanta, but Jim Ross was awesome in uh Oklahoma for Watts.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:23

Um worst finisher you ever took. Something that injured you, something that maybe you just don't like taking?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:32

Um I tell you what happened on that uh would be uh me drop kicking people off the top rope.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:41

Yeah, because you gotta land.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:44

Yeah. I I I come off the I used to do the drop kick off the top rope a lot. And uh uh one time I drop kicked boss boss man off the top rope, you know, and when I landed, it was like, why am I doing this? This hurts. So I quit doing that.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:06

Um and if you were this is the last question, and then we'll get going. Um if you were on an island, a deserted island, and you could just pick two other wrestling legends, uh, who would they be to be on the island with you?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:23

Oh's the best company Um I mean do they gotta be living or what? No, no, anyone.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:33

Anyone anyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:34

I was gonna say, uh I mean, if I'm on an island, it's my wife there.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:41

Sure, we can have your wife. She's a she sounds like a legend. Right. She's a legend too.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:47

Okay, yeah. If she's there, yeah, and she if she's there, uh, then I'd have Charlie and uh who Kurt Henning.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:59

Good. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:01

Things would not get dull.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:02

No, no, they wouldn't. No. Oh boy. Boy, what would happen if you had Kurt Henning, Dynamite Kid, and uh Jacques Rougeau all in the same same room, huh?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:14

Somebody ain't gonna live. No.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:20

Oh well, I really appreciate you coming on, and um uh this is this has been amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:27

It really has. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:30

Well, thank y'all for having me. Um, I'd like to let your viewers know that you can follow me on uh Facebook. Please, I want to get people to uh because I'm getting ready to shut down the Michael Sam Houston Facebook page. I'm not gonna be on there very I I I'm so busy, dude. I really am. We I'm sitting on 50 acres here, and there's always something to do. So I I don't have a lot of time to mess with computers and and I want to be writing my books and things like that because I'm working on a substance abuse book, I'm working on a book about the renegades, and I'm working on my life story. I have help, and we hope to be getting these out, you know, as quick as we can. But my help is taking the social media, uh uh all the stuff for social media off my plate. They're gonna be handling that. So if people can reach me at the Sam Houston uh page.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:31

All right.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:33

Yep, that sounds great. Well, thank you so much, Sam. It's greatly appreciated for coming on the show today.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:40

If you need me to take more pictures of the bell or whatever, I'll sit I'll do that too.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:45

All right, I appreciate it. We'll probably have you on again sometime, okay?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:49

Sure, I'd love to. All right, all right, y'all take care.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:52

You too. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:53

Thank you for listening to the show. Join us on YouTube.